Issue 4S board nasty problem

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kokkiklhs
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Issue 4S board nasty problem

Post by kokkiklhs »

Got one 4S speccy plus for free from a friend, the case looks good, but the board was messed up. The modulator had been savagely removed, also there was a bad attempt of replacement of 2 lower RAM ICs, with some cut traces on the PCB. I also noticed a semi-burnt (but seemingly functional) 7805 and a blown D19 (zener), which I replaced both.

Well, powered it up just out of curiosity, all I saw was a faint monochrome (B/W) signal, sometimes with stable border and paper with random patterns scrolling vertically, or diagonally, or flashing vertical bars, or still vertical bars. Sometimes, randomly, it could start giving "loading" stripes on the border, with the appropriate sound coming from the internal speaker! Quite a variety, eh? :mrgreen:

I noticed that the voltages at the lower RAM ICs were not correct, I only had a good 4.96V in the 5V line, but only 2.30 instead of 12V and -1.35 instead of -5V.

What I have done so far:
=====================
-Replaced 7805 and D19 which were in bad shape, anyway
-Replaced all electrolytic capacitors with fresh ones
-Removed and socketed all lower RAM ICs, also fixed broken traces
-Removed and socketed all the LSXXXXX logic ICs
-Tried all freshly-socketed RAM and logic ICs in a good working Issue 2 board which I have with sockets, they all work (miracle!!!)
-Also swapped all of the above with the ones (also socketed) from the working Issue 2.
-Checked ULA from the 4S on the Issue 2, it works as well.
-Replaced TR4, TR5, D15 and D17 (BA157) with new ones, but also checked the removed components on the working Issue 2, they are good.
-Measured (without desoldering) all other diodes and all resistors around the power circuitry (also the 15 Ohm R61/62 which I read that are common suspects in such a case), they give proper values according to the service manual for Issue 4A and 4B and according to the color codes of the resistors. They all look in good physical shape, too.
N.B. that I was unable to find a specific service manual or schematics for the 4S board, but it seems to be pretty close to the previous 4x boards. The 4S is rather obscure, though and little info about it can be found in the web.
-Replaced the coil with the good working one from the issue 2.

Despite all my efforts mentioned above, each time I fire up (with or without the ICS in sockets) the board and after each separate step of progress, the results are EXACTLY the same as described in the beginning, just the black/white picture quality became slightly brighter and sharper.
The replaced, new electrolytic capacitors C44 and C45 give both almost 2.5V of current, instead of the values they were supposed to give! The capacitors near the power input circuitry (C43, C50 etc) give good voltages, though.
The board gives EXACTLY the same results with lower RAM installed or not, and even with TR4, TR5 and the diodes D15, D17, D19 completely DETACHED. :twisted:

All I have left to do is desolder the CPU (it seems to reset when I tested it, and all the symptoms described declare that it SHOULD have some kind of activity) and also the ROM and the upper RAM ICs. None of them gets hot during operation. But could it be some sort of short-circuit that draws the current in some way? I am not an expert in the theory of electronic circuits, so I am kind of stuck here.... I wish I had an oscilloscope (and knew how it works), but I don't... :roll:

Please give any advice, I am about to throw the thing off the window (after having broken it into little pieces with a heavy hammer, hahahah), never have seen such a notoriously malfunctioning machine in the 20+ years of my hobbyist repairing history...
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1024MAK
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Re: Issue 4S board nasty problem

Post by 1024MAK »

First and foremost, is to find the problem with the +12V and -5V power supply rails.

You have replaced lots of items, but you are not clear in your post as to the voltages on these rails. So can you tell me what voltage you get on the +12V and the -5V rails please.

If the +12V rail is too low, the video colour encoder chip will not operate. The 4116 "lower" DRAM chips needs the +12V and the -5V supplies in order to work properly. Without the 4116 "lower" DRAM chips working, the Z80 CPU will just read and process garbage nonsensical instructions, which can result in all manor of random like effects.

More later when I have more time...

Mark
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kokkiklhs
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Re: Issue 4S board nasty problem

Post by kokkiklhs »

1024MAK wrote:First and foremost, is to find the problem with the +12V and -5V power supply rails.

You have replaced lots of items, but you are not clear in your post as to the voltages on these rails. So can you tell me what voltage you get on the +12V and the -5V rails please.

If the +12V rail is too low, the video colour encoder chip will not operate. The 4116 "lower" DRAM chips needs the +12V and the -5V supplies in order to work properly. Without the 4116 "lower" DRAM chips working, the Z80 CPU will just read and process garbage nonsensical instructions, which can result in all manor of random like effects.

More later when I have more time...

Mark
Thanks for the answer, Mark!
I have already written about the voltages, but perhaps I've mentioned too much info in a few lines, so I became a bit confusing!! :)
In the 12v rail I have 2.30V, in the -5v rail I have -1.35V... the 5v seems to be good, it gives 4.96V which is reasonable!
The +edges of C44 and C45 give almost 2.5V, which is not normal at all....
Where shall I check? Do you have any suggestions?
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1024MAK
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Re: Issue 4S board nasty problem

Post by 1024MAK »

Unplug all the 4116 "lower" DRAM chips, then re-test the +12V and -5V voltages again. Don't refit the 4116 DRAM chips until later when we are sure that the voltages are okay.

The next step is to work out if there is a problem with the DC to DC converter (formed by TR4, TR5, the coil and the associated resistors, capacitors and diodes) or a short circuit on one of the outputs of the DC - DC converter.

The +5V comes from the 7805 voltage regulator, and not from the DC - DC converter.

Mark
ZX81 Variations
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kokkiklhs
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Re: Issue 4S board nasty problem

Post by kokkiklhs »

1024MAK wrote:Unplug all the 4116 "lower" DRAM chips, then re-test the +12V and -5V voltages again. Don't refit the 4116 DRAM chips until later when we are sure that the voltages are okay.

The next step is to work out if there is a problem with the DC to DC converter (formed by TR4, TR5, the coil and the associated resistors, capacitors and diodes) or a short circuit on one of the outputs of the DC - DC converter.

The +5V comes from the 7805 voltage regulator, and not from the DC - DC converter.

Mark
I have already unplugged the DRAM ICs, but the voltages remain the same! Have fitted a good, working coil, replaced all electrolytic caps, TR4 and TR5, D15, D17, D19, R61, R62 and measured all the other diodes and resistors related to the DC-DC circuitry! They all *SEEM* to be OK but still no luck, not a slight improvement...
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1024MAK
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Re: Issue 4S board nasty problem

Post by 1024MAK »

Also watch for the lead-out differences on this issue 4S board. They may not match that for the types of transistors (positions TR4, TR5) used on earlier issue boards. If in doubt, trace the tracks, or use your meter on a low resistance range to confirm which pad and track goes to which component.

Mark
ZX81 Variations
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kokkiklhs
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Re: Issue 4S board nasty problem

Post by kokkiklhs »

1024MAK wrote:Also watch for the lead-out differences on this issue 4S board. They may not match that for the types of transistors (positions TR4, TR5) used on earlier issue boards. If in doubt, trace the tracks, or use your meter on a low resistance range to confirm which pad and track goes to which component.

Mark
You are right saying that, but both TR4 and TR5 I removed from this one seemed to be intact (I mean factory-installed and no replacements. They also have been tested on the Issue 2 and they still work fine... I have replaced them with new ones of the same types, but it was not necessary since they still work...

Could the problem be due to e.g a short circuit in the ROM IC, or some of the upper RAM??? :roll:
The Z80 will be the last thing to replace, if I don't manage meanwhile to spot and solve the problem...
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1024MAK
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Re: Issue 4S board nasty problem

Post by 1024MAK »

No, the only other chip that uses the +12V is the video colour encoder, IC14, a LM1889. The supply for this is via resistor R62 (15 ohms). So measure the voltage (referenced to 0V) on each side. If the voltage is about the same on each side, IC14 is not drawing excessive current.

Note: I am using the issue 4A/4B schematic, so circuit references are taken from this. As this is the closest we have for a 4S board. But there may be differences.

Mark
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1024MAK
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Re: Issue 4S board nasty problem

Post by 1024MAK »

Images of issue 4S boards:
Kio's Sinclair ZX Computers Archive (Read the home page here first ;) )

And more...
Image
This one has had the 4116 DRAM replaced with a replacement memory module.

Image

Image

Mark
ZX81 Variations
ZX81 Chip Pin-outs
ZX81 Video Transistor Buffer Amp

:!: Standby alert :!:
There are four lights!
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb :!:
Looking forward to summer later in the year.
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kokkiklhs
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Re: Issue 4S board nasty problem

Post by kokkiklhs »

1024MAK wrote:No, the only other chip that uses the +12V is the video colour encoder, IC14, a LM1889. The supply for this is via resistor R62 (15 ohms). So measure the voltage (referenced to 0V) on each side. If the voltage is about the same on each side, IC14 is not drawing excessive current.

Note: I am using the issue 4A/4B schematic, so circuit references are taken from this. As this is the closest we have for a 4S board. But there may be differences.

Mark
I'll do and I will report here with the results, thanks for the support so far!! 8-)
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