New release of EightyOne available

Emulator and emulator development specific topics
MarcNL
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 pm

Re: New release of EightyOne available

Post by MarcNL »

Hi Paul!

No, they are not identical: the Sinclair one has the standard Sinclair 1982 copyright message, whereas the Inves one obviously doesn't as it isn't a Sinclair! The Argentinian Czerweny CZ Spectrum Plus also has this Inves ROM, and keyboard! Makes you wonder how they sourced it ;)

Image

I checked the ROMs, they appear to be correct.

Follow the link in my signature if you want to see the Spanish +2A/+3 (+2 is in the mail!) and French +2 up close. Spoiler: the French one does have a translated 128 ROM, but the keyboard is still English! The descriptions of the ports are in French however.
Marc
ZX80/MicroAce/ZX81/Lambda UK&USA, Spectrum/+/Beckman/Samsung, 128 Spain/UK/9G/Arabic, +2/+2A/+3/Arabic, CZ1500/2000/Spec/Plus, TK90X/95, Inves+, dB+, TC2048 PAL/NTSC/2068, TS1000/1500/2068, UK2086 ― and more!

GOTO www.sinclaircollection.site
Fruitcake
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:53 pm

Re: New release of EightyOne available

Post by Fruitcake »

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:08 pm the drop-down box for the ZX81 roms only lists the 3 known ZX81 roms by default (neat!), but omits the TS1500 rom. Yeah, I can manually choose it too, but just a thought ;)
The intention was for the drop down lists to show which ROMs the computer was actually released with or officially supported. This is why the TS1500 ROM is not listed for the ZX81 even though it is compatible, and why the ZX80 shows the edition 1 ZX81 ROM as that is the one likely to have been sold as an upgrade to the ZX80. Technically Sinclair might have sold the later editions but I'm assuming the ZX80 time was over by then (but this assumption might be wrong). I feel there is useful information in showing what ROM versions were released for each computer and not to confuse matters with the ROMs that were compatible; these can always be manually selected if desired.

I am not an expert on the various official and unofficial clone model, and so I rely on others to let me know if there are any inaccuracies. For instance, I don't know about what editions of the ZX81 ROM were actually shipped in TS1000s and so I have included all 3. But I'm not entirely happy about this as this could be presenting misleading information. I would not be surprised if the TS1000 only shipped with the edition 3 ROM but I simply don't know. I really need all those that have a TS1000 to type in the necessary PEEKs to prove which ROM editions they have, and hopefully with enough results this will prove which ROMs are applicable.

I have contemplated adding some form of recently used list against each computer, but I doubt people change ROMs that often. I'm also tempted to group the ROMs into subfolders and even renaming the ROMs to make them easier to identify (after all there is no need for them to be restricted anymore to 8.3 format). But there is a lot of the code that explicitly checks the name of the ROM file in use and so there is a risk of breaking things until all such instances have been updated (or better still replaced by confirming the ROM via a checksum).

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:08 pm The supplied TS1510 roms are missing 07-9004
I could not find this available anywhere online, hence could not include it. It would be very nice to add this to complete the set.

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:08 pm I have no means to dump mine to include it for the next release (I do have a 1510).
Are you able to actually run the ROM cartridge on a real machine? If you can and if you can break back to BASIC then you could use a simple FOR loop to PEEK out the ROM cartridge contents and then this can be saved to cassette. I can provide further help on a suitable process and can put together step by step instructions.
MarcNL
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 pm

Re: New release of EightyOne available

Post by MarcNL »

Well, that was surprisingly easy! Just let your plane crash and the program just stops! I've beaten the 40 year old copy protection! 🤣

Image

What would be the best to do? Save line 1 to tape or do I need to peek and poke something?

About those machine ROM's. Yeah, I think splitting it into subdirectories and using checksums would be a good idea, now it's a hotchpotch of machine roms, game roms, interface roms and home brew roms (personally I don't care for the latter).
Marc
ZX80/MicroAce/ZX81/Lambda UK&USA, Spectrum/+/Beckman/Samsung, 128 Spain/UK/9G/Arabic, +2/+2A/+3/Arabic, CZ1500/2000/Spec/Plus, TK90X/95, Inves+, dB+, TC2048 PAL/NTSC/2068, TS1000/1500/2068, UK2086 ― and more!

GOTO www.sinclaircollection.site
MarcNL
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 pm

Re: New release of EightyOne available

Post by MarcNL »

Oh Paul, on the subject of dumping roms - I have this Arabic +3 of which the roms aren't dumped yet! Would there be a means of saving the contents to tape/disk, possibly after a bit of peeking, poking or using OUT as I don't have a rom programmer/reader? The Arabic +3 is the only machine that doesn't use a hardware switch to switch between roms and the full 128k BASIC rom has been translated (the 128, +2 and +2 only had the 48K rom translated).

The boot screen is animated (it writes "Sinclair Egypt") and gives a choice of English (top) and Arabic (bottom)
https://www.sinclaircollection.site/wp- ... screen.mp4
Marc
ZX80/MicroAce/ZX81/Lambda UK&USA, Spectrum/+/Beckman/Samsung, 128 Spain/UK/9G/Arabic, +2/+2A/+3/Arabic, CZ1500/2000/Spec/Plus, TK90X/95, Inves+, dB+, TC2048 PAL/NTSC/2068, TS1000/1500/2068, UK2086 ― and more!

GOTO www.sinclaircollection.site
Fruitcake
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:53 pm

Re: New release of EightyOne available

Post by Fruitcake »

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:49 pm Well, that was surprisingly easy! Just let your plane crash and the program just stops! I've beaten the 40 year old copy protection! ??
:-D

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:49 pm What would be the best to do? Save line 1 to tape or do I need to peek and poke something?
Saving the program in RAM will not produce a perfect copy of the ROM. The other 3 ROM cartridge contain the program in the 8K-16K region and just copy it into RAM, meaning the program looks no different to if it had been loaded from cassette. So we need to PEEK all bytes between 8K-16K, place them into RAM and then save them out to cassette. We don't actually want to keep what is already in RAM since it gets in the way. But if you type NEW then I believe it will just reload the ROM cartridge into RAM again. So we need a more involved approach. I will put together a process and PM it over to you.

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:49 pm About those machine ROM's. Yeah, I think splitting it into subdirectories and using checksums would be a good idea, now it's a hotchpotch of machine roms, game roms, interface roms and home brew roms (personally I don't care for the latter).
Yes, it is hard to know the origins of some items, what versions they are should such items had multiple versions, and whether there is anything there that could be safely removed. I am also not in favour of shipping home brew ROMs with EO for a variety of reasons. Such ROMs can always be added manually if people want to use them, allowing them to update the latest versions as applicable.
Fruitcake
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:53 pm

Re: New release of EightyOne available

Post by Fruitcake »

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:36 pm Follow the link in my signature if you want to see the Spanish +2A/+3 (+2 is in the mail!) and French +2 up close.
Thanks for the link. A very nice collection there and a great resource!! :D

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:36 pm the French one does have a translated 128 ROM, but the keyboard is still English! The descriptions of the ports are in French however.
Indeed it does - I disassembled it and that can be found on my website.

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:36 pm but the keyboard is still English! The descriptions of the ports are in French however.
That strikes me as a little odd. I guess it was cheaper to re-use the existing keys and just change the legends on the case.

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:36 pm I checked the ROMs, they appear to be correct.
Thanks. I have a copy of the Inves ROM I found online but like most collections of ROMs it does not state any background to it, so I was not sure whether it was official, unauthorised or a home brew adapation. Your website has helped clarify the situation. :)

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 1:36 pm No, they are not identical: the Sinclair one has the standard Sinclair 1982 copyright message, whereas the Inves one obviously doesn't as it isn't a Sinclair! The Argentinian Czerweny CZ Spectrum Plus also has this Inves ROM, and keyboard! Makes you wonder how they sourced it ;)
I would like it to be clear in EightyOne which ROMs are official / licensed versions, and which unauthorised adaptions. It's never going to be able to present all the background history to the different model variations (and probably nor should it aim to do so - that is not the primary job of an emulator), but I think it should at least try not to present information that could be misleading or ambiguous. It opens the question of which ROMs should be supported in EightyOne, and also which clone models to include. My preference is for the official / licensed ones but I can understand those wanting to see the others included. Perhaps there should be two ROM drop downs - one lists the official variants and the other any unofficial ones. It also raises the question of whether to (say) list the Spanish ROMs under the Spectrum+, Spectrum 128, etc, or whether to add a new "Investronica" tab and put the models there. The icons and emulation would be the same; just the ROM loaded would be different. After all, the TS1000 has its own entry even though is it no different to a ZX81 (2K RAM and 60Hz can be selected for the ZX81 so the TS1000 entry is just a shortcut to this configuration). If new tabs are added then I think these should only be for official authorised models (I'm not suggesting to remove any of the existing unofficial models though). I'm interested to hear what people prefer.
Fruitcake
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:53 pm

Re: New release of EightyOne available

Post by Fruitcake »

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:58 pm I have this Arabic +3 of which the roms aren't dumped yet! Would there be a means of saving the contents to tape/disk, possibly after a bit of peeking, poking or using OUT as I don't have a rom programmer/reader?
I'll include some ideas when I PM about Flight Simulation. One query though...

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:58 pm The Arabic +3 is the only machine that doesn't use a hardware switch to switch between roms
When you say "hardware switch", what exactly do you mean? Are you referring to the menu system of the 128 models to allow selection between 128K and 48K mode?
MarcNL
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 pm

Re: New release of EightyOne available

Post by MarcNL »

Adding an Investrónica tab would be a great idea! Perhaps not everybody knows that the Spanish 128 would be listed a such though.
The boxes for these 3 machines can be seen on my site and they clearly state the Investrónica name.

Should there be a tab for the Microdigital unauthorized clone machines? I've checked the roms of my machine and it seems both Spanish and Portuguese live inside it and only 1 bit or byte would distinguish between them. I don't know if this bit can be set hardwarewise or that 2 roms were produced. With both the TK90X and the TK95 that would be 4 roms in total.

The Czerweny clones would run on a standard Sinclair or Inves (EP)ROM. Even the ULA is an original Ferranti - it's been speculated that because of the Falklands War Sinclair was unable to sell directly to Argentina and Timex of Portugal stepped in: the CZ 2000 has a label that says "Assembled in Portugal"! Then again, while the local version of the TK90X and 95 had an reverse engineered ULA, the export version (to Uruguay) also had a Ferranti ULA!

I have a TK90X with a Ferranti ULA and a TK95 with the reverse engineered ULA, both with Spanish ROMs as they were bought in Uruguay... (Yes, history is a bit messy!)

Can you whip up a simple program of a few bytes of assembler to calculate a fast checksum? Then I can really compare your roms with my machines. I'd add all peek values in BASIC but that's not very accurate.

The Arabic +, 128, +2 and +2A all have a switch at the front which selects the ROM: original Sinclair 48 or 128 BASIC rom, depending of the machine of course, or a 48k BASIC Arabic translation. The +3 has a fancy boot menu that does away with any hardware switch gear.

Image

(Yes, that definitely is Egyptian dessert sand!)
Marc
ZX80/MicroAce/ZX81/Lambda UK&USA, Spectrum/+/Beckman/Samsung, 128 Spain/UK/9G/Arabic, +2/+2A/+3/Arabic, CZ1500/2000/Spec/Plus, TK90X/95, Inves+, dB+, TC2048 PAL/NTSC/2068, TS1000/1500/2068, UK2086 ― and more!

GOTO www.sinclaircollection.site
Fruitcake
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:53 pm

Re: New release of EightyOne available

Post by Fruitcake »

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:24 pm Adding an Investrónica tab would be a great idea!
There is a Timex tab so an Investronica ones seems appropriate. There aren't significant hardware differences, just the ROMs, but it could useful for those models to have have their own tab.

For the Spanish 128, the 128 BASIC editor was significantly different to the UK 128 BASIC editor. Do you know if a translated version of the UK 128 BASIC editor was ever released?

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:24 pm Should there be a tab for the Microdigital unauthorized clone machines?
I'm inclined not to simply because then why not include other unauthorised clones... where to draw the line?

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:24 pm Can you whip up a simple program of a few bytes of assembler to calculate a fast checksum?
Sure.

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:24 pm The Arabic +, 128, +2 and +2A all have a switch at the front which selects the ROM: original Sinclair 48 or 128 BASIC rom, depending of the machine of course, or a 48k BASIC Arabic translation. The +3 has a fancy boot menu that does away with any hardware switch gear.
I see. So it literally has two ROMs soldered on top of each other!

So you could have it function as per a standard UK Spectrum (48 or 128 depending on model), or use the switch and have 48 mode only but in Arabic?

And the +3 has 48 and 128 mode in Arabic.

MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:24 pm Yes, that definitely is Egyptian dessert sand!
:lol:

I think it needs a bit of a clean...

But it makes sense thinking about it. The sand would be from the often misspelled 'Sinai' desert - the 'c', 'l' and 'r' just being left out due to getting obscured by sand, thus leading to the misspelling...
MarcNL
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 pm

Re: New release of EightyOne available

Post by MarcNL »

Fruitcake wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:04 pm I see. So it literally has two ROMs soldered on top of each other!

So you could have it function as per a standard UK Spectrum (48 or 128 depending on model), or use the switch and have 48 mode only but in Arabic?

And the +3 has 48 and 128 mode in Arabic.
Hitting the nail on the head, sir!

Not only Sinclair Egypt (actually the Matisco Trading & Inv. Co. of Cairo) but also Beckman in Sweden used this technique. The switch looks nicer though, it can be reached from the edge connector hole.

Image

(Note, in the EightyOne distribution there is a rom named Arabic31.ROM; it's not version 3.1 but 3-A but 1 and A looks quite similar in Arabic)
Fruitcake wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:04 pm
MarcNL wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:24 pm Yes, that definitely is Egyptian dessert sand!
:lol:

I think it needs a bit of a clean...
It does work! That is, only as a 16k machine. But I thought this was so incredibly dirty, I decided to leave it like that.
Fruitcake wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:04 pm But it makes sense thinking about it. The sand would be from the often misspelled 'Sinai' desert - the 'c', 'l' and 'r' just being left out due to getting obscured by sand, thus leading to the misspelling...
Hey, I'm not a native English speaker! :roll: :lol: :lol:
Marc
ZX80/MicroAce/ZX81/Lambda UK&USA, Spectrum/+/Beckman/Samsung, 128 Spain/UK/9G/Arabic, +2/+2A/+3/Arabic, CZ1500/2000/Spec/Plus, TK90X/95, Inves+, dB+, TC2048 PAL/NTSC/2068, TS1000/1500/2068, UK2086 ― and more!

GOTO www.sinclaircollection.site
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